Anyone else upset with the abysmal support AdSense recieved concerning disabled accounts? I run http://lyricalthreatz.com , which is fully compliant with Google's Terms and Conditions, and had my account disabled a few days ago due to 'invalid clicks'. I immediately provided an appeal stating no administrator's click on our site's ads and there might be cases of dedicated members clicking our ads to support us.
Some of you may think, "Well, there's your problem!". That's what I thought, hence my appeal. However, my appeal was denied and given the same generic message which only furthers angers me.
a) I have no control over who clicks my ads. I don't encourage ad clicking nor do I disclose that ad clicks even give me revenue.
b) Who's to say it isn't a competitor clicking my ads to purposefully disable my account?
c) Why don't they disclose their logs? How do I even know there were any 'invalid clicks'?
I struggle to see how such a large and 'specialized' Staff Team employed by Google can not respond to our appeals beyond a generic message. The message states they have thoroughly examined my site. Surely a 5 minute response would be nothing compared to a 'thorough' examination?
It's becoming an increasing problem, more and more do you hear about "Google Adsense Scam" or "account disabled for no reason". No longer can Google simply play the blame game. They need to take action. I planned using Google AdSenese revenue to pay for a VPS hosting upgrade. Now it will have to wait and so will my plans for my site. All because Google AdSense 'sensed' click fraud and are 'unable' to reinstate my account or convince me my account was looked over by humans instead of simply a part of the click all --> reply button.
Best answers zihara Top Contributor
5/19/10
Top Contributor
5/19/10
Best answer - Pandemikk (Asker) Go to this answer
Pandemikk: A quick pass through your site sees all kinds of small items that could be a problem, especially when taken in aggregate. One of the problems with the AdSenseBot is it makes half-a$$ decisions before all the results are in. What I mean by that: it's not just one visit that grabs everything, chews everything up, checks everything out and gives you THE final answer (in 48 hours or less). The Bot is a series of modules, each designed to pick up certain items and run checks on them. If 50% of the checks look good, it sends off an acceptance email so you can get on with placing your ads. However, in that final 50%, the Bot often runs into questions it can't answer or things it doesn't like and it hangs up. In that "hang up," it will send out one or another of only a few generic emails, each designed to be a catch-all that doesn't truly answer any of your/our valid questions. A hard read of the "invalid clicks" email will show you a couple other places where the Bot hints there may be a problem. You don't have a privacy policy problem but a forum set-up, user-generated content, potential copyright issues and "not family-friendly" languaging can quickly add up to give you the toss. What's a pain is Google will never directly say so and all we can do is guess. But that's my best guess, especially after seeing so many recent instances where Google's version of "NetNanny" has proven extremely prudish. The "user-generated content/copyright issues" problem has also gotten really big over the last few years. Again, this is just my best guess, it is not meant to be an excuse for Google's hiding behind their obtuse and vague legalese. After looking at so many sites during my five years of participating in these "help" forums, I can say that very few forum sites see any kind of reasonable return from AdSense. And those of us who do see some kind of reasonable return have been watching that return go south in a long, slow slide for the last several years now. In the summer of 2007 I was seeing twice the money on one-quarter the traffic...
You want to make a few bucks of regular income every month: sell subscriptions for your site to your regulars for a couple bucks each. Make it worth it and you'll do fine. I make more money from my own direct ad sales than AdSense will ever pay, but I found a sweet spot between advertisers and buyers and I generate a lot of traffic. You might try that, too. I also use a couple other common ad-servers and together, they make 35-40% of my ad-server income (meaning Google isn't everything there is out there). Good luck!
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Replies 1 - 21 of 21 gddsmith Top Contributor
5/18/10
Top Contributor
5/18/10
A human review (if they didn't actually do one) wouldn't help that site any because it's nowhere close to meeting the Adsense family friendly definition just by doing a quick scan & therefore it isn't >fully compliant with Google's Terms and Conditions<.
So whether it was invalid clicks or just the risk to advertisers email the outcome would have been the same.
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Report abuse Pandemikk Level 3
5/18/10
Level 3
5/18/10
Could you point out where I violated Google's Terms and Conditions? Could you clarify why a hip hop music site is determined unfriendly?
This is where I determine if my site is compliant with Google AdSense: https://www.google.com/adsense/support/bin/answer.py?answer=48182
Let's pay close attention to Content Guidelines. I have successfully checked off each bullet as something my site does NOT have. Furthermore, my account was disabled for 'invalid clicks', not for violating their Terms.
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Report abuse gddsmith Top Contributor
5/18/10
Top Contributor
5/18/10
I didn't say a hip hop site would automatically be determined to be unfriendly although there are many rap songs that would not fit within the Adsense definition of family safe or family friendly.
I personally am not making any judgment on the site but merely giving my interpretation of the rules of which I have paid close attention to the guidelines and your site has the "f" word in numerous post & I only looked at a few pages.
That is why I said it wouldn't helped to have a human review for invalid clicks because even if they did determine that there wasn't a problem w/ the clicks they would have (in my opinion) disabled the site anyways because of the content.Therefore they may not have spent much time reviewing the site for invalid clicks because of the content and simply decided "what's the point of doing that".
Your link:
Content Guidelines
>Sites with Google ads may not include or link to:
Pornography, adult or mature content
Excessive profanity<
http://adsense.blogspot.com/2007/11/play-it-safe-family-safe.html
>While it's not a sure test, we sometimes suggest that publishers ask themselves the following questions to determine if content is family-safe: Would I be comfortable viewing this content with my parents or children in the same room? Would I feel comfortable viewing this content if my boss walked up behind me while I had this content on my screen? If the answer to either of these questions is no, then it is likely that some advertisers would not be comfortable showing their ads on such content and we might consider it mature.<
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5/18/10
Level 3
5/18/10
Well upon re-reading this I feel stupid for allowing myself to take the Red Herring bait.
a) My site was already approved, if they thought my site was in violation of its Terms and Conditions they would have not approved it. Notice I say site, not account, because this site was the first on this AdSense Account.
b) If upon human review of my site they deemed it in violation one would think they would have notified me.
c) My account was disabled for 'invalid clicks', not for any violations.
So let's just give a simply premise:
1) ggdsmith's implications, Google did not review my site (or did but no thoroughly) because if they had (again, thoroughly as the email implies) they would have found unacceptable content.
2) My site was reviewed, my content was acceptable, but they failed to give me an adequate response to why my account was disabled.
Assume 1) is true.
Then Google's Support is showing the same lack of support YouTube's users have been receiving for years. Accounts Suspended on the very first hint of any legal actions that could arise. Now while, I would say, 80% (very rough and uneducated estimate) are legitimate complaints, the other 20% suffer from either bogus claims or invalid claims. Google does not look into either. Instead, it treats you as a statistic, seeing as you don't bring them revenue and your 'boycott' would be completely unnoticed. This has now gone over to AdSense. Invalid clicks are immediately treated as purposefully intent by webmaster. This is why all revenue is lost and 'given' back to the AdWords owners. Notice I say all, because it isn't just the 'invalid clicks' revenue which you lose but even the valid ones. Why is this? "Because we have no way to determine if those clicks are valid", I'd assume. But wait?! As shown numerously, Google has a very complex system to detect these clicks so that can't be true, unless Google is lying to us, of course (Google lie? No...). Why do I believe this system really behaves this way? For $$$. They must gain thousands of dollars every day from taking back any legitimate money you have gained under the guise that they could be just as 'invalid' as the 'clicks' (if any) that got your account disabled.
Assume 2) is true.
Then their customer support is largely lacking. As a customer of AdSense you are trusting Google with your money. Google is the middleman between you and your Advertisers. You have no direct communication with your advertisers. Now, you have no direct communication with your middleman. You are basically trusting Google to make the right and correct decision. Now as we all know, it is impossible for a human, or human created technology, to function flawless. So of course, there will be invalid instances of accounts disabled to 'invalid clicks'. But since you can not contact neither the middleman nor your Advertisers there is no way for you to determine or rectify this issue. There isn't even a way to validate this issue. I, for one, don't agree with Google's review of my site or its decision. Nor do I agree that they can just steal money I have legitimately made. those advertisers had their ads on my site and gained traffic from my site and in return I am given revenue based on this. However, this has not happened! Basically, Google has their system setup that an Advertiser can say "I'm getting invalid clicks from so-and-so website", and (in my shared experience and viewpoints) Google will assume they are being truthful, disable your account and steal your money. Again, they must gain thousands of dollars every day from taking back any legitimate money you have gained under the guise that they could be just as 'invalid' as the 'clicks' (if any) that got your account disabled.
Either case should be opposing to Google's policy concerning these matters. However, it is safe to say either 1) or 2) (actually, both could be true...) are applicable. Now I understand Google is a very busy business, but Google is also a very rich and prominent business. They claim to have a specialized team just for disabled AdSense account's appeals. If this was true, these same specialists should have no problem communicating to you in a non-generic manner. Instead, you are treated as a cheat with the slim chance of having this permanent cheat status branded on you revoked. Why is it permanent? Because you are unable to make another account once you have yours disabled.
Hopefully, I can get some intelligent responses out of this support forum now.
-----
"They must gain thousands of dollars every day from taking back any legitimate money you have gained under the guise that they could be just as 'invalid' as the 'clicks' that got your account disabled."
^Applies to either Google or its AdWord's customers.
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Report abuse Publisher1 Top Contributor
5/18/10
Top Contributor
5/18/10
Pandemikk, let me start by saying I know how frustrating it is to have an account disabled. It happened to me and I am one of the few around here whose account was disabled and appeal denied, who has been able to continue with Adsense within the rules. (Other threads will explain how; the solution applies only to a tiny percentage of Adsense publishers who must follow all the rules.) I spend some time as a volunteer in the disabled account threads because of this experience.
Now, down to business, and business this is. Adsense only is viable for website publishers who are suppliers to not customers of Google who appreciate that automation is the only way the program can be viable -- at least if the number of participants is to be kept as large as possible. You simply cannot have proper "supplier support" (not "customer support as Google is sending not receiving money from Adsense publishers) if the total revenue to Google could be $30 for a $100 payout after several months! While Google does not disclose its adsense revenue to publishers, I've seen numbers within the Google Books system which uses a similar model to Adsense, and the 70/30 split seems about right. This share of revenue is AFTER google pays all its expenses including server fees, administration, payment mechanisms, etc. In other words, even a tiny bit of "supplier service" would require a much higher payment and participation threshold, and that (I fear) would eliminate 90 per cent of Adsense publishers from consideration.
So, yes, Google treats us like numbers, and makes access difficult. (Imagine especially if access is easy for the 80 per cent of publishers who deserve to be disabled, but won't take no for an answer!) But this difficult access is actually generous compared to the way most businesses treat their former suppliers. If someone provides my business with shoddy goods or services and I don't want to do business with them again, I won't return phone calls! (Worse, it is hard to become a supplier in the first place -- have you ever tried to SELL stuff to, say, Wal-Mart.)
Now, to the issue of invalid clicks which is the apparent reason for your disabling. We can't know the answers exactly why here -- it is your responsibility to assess and monitor your site traffic and if you sense anything fishy going on, to take proactive measures right away. In your audience you may have a few loose cannons who either want to "help" you by adding to your revenue, or hurt you to get your account disabled simply because they are bad people. I realize this may seem unfair, but remember, the victims if the matter is not resolved right away are the Google Adwords advertisers who are paying for the invalid clicks. If they lose trust in the Adwords/Adsense program, they will stop advertising and that does no good for anyone.
Frankly, Google owes you NO "supplier service". In most cases, the revenue you have lost is insignificant in the scheme of things so your frustration is emotional more than practical. If the revenue loss is substantial, you can research the solution I found, but I sense it won't work in your case because of the character/demographics of your forum and your practical inability to control the actions and expressions of your forum members. This is not a criticism of you, it is just a practical expression of what you are facing. I hope I've been straightforward and respectful in these observations.
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Report abuse Pandemikk Level 3
5/18/10
Level 3
5/18/10
Well I appreciate your well thought-out reply.
However, my site was not one of those 30-100$ in several months. From what I was seeing it would look to be more like 150$ a month. Which, small in comparison to many, is substantial to us as it more than pays for our site's webhosting. Any extra made can be used for the site's benefit.
Your "supplier support" argument is perfectly reasonable, if not pleasing. I still struggle to find out how they could afford a thorough review of your site but not a non-generic response. That would be, perhaps, 10 bucks more to the reviewers. But, would it not also cut down on the amount of appeals sent in (since many disabled account submit appeals for weeks until they get approved or give up) in the first place? Wouldn't this further cut down on reviews and ultimately labor payment?
Even if the above two is not true, which could be very true since I haven't the slimmest idea on how Google operates, this still doesn't explain why they keep your money made through valid clicks. It's already established they know the difference between 'invalid clicks' and 'valid clicks', or at least in regards to how they are treated such, so why do they keep your valid click profits? I wouldn't be half as frustrated with Google if they did not keep the money legitimately gained from sending legitimate traffic to their clients from us. I most likely wouldn't have even made this thread if this wasn't the case.
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Report abuse Publisher1 Top Contributor
5/18/10
Top Contributor
5/18/10
As far as I understand, when accounts are disabled, the revenue is returned to advertisers. I can't prove exactly how Google does this, but some adwords advertisers report small credits to their accounts.
Google's manual review is presumably triggered by indications that the bots are telling it something is wrong. Again, we don't know exactly how these decisions are made but again it doesn't really matter in the scheme of things: Google has the right to end the accounts. In some cases, (also documented), Google suspends the account but pays out the funds owing -- how and why it decides this route is better is beyond me. In others, it gives warnings to allow you to clean up the site or fix the problems. Again, why or how the notification rather than instant disabling operate are beyond me.
In your case, I would just switch to another provider, sell advertising directly or accept affiliate ads. You won't find the revenue as easy and simple, but, heck, you can't do anything about it so why worry. When you get over your frustration you'll find the consequences in the scheme of things are insignificant.
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Report abuse Pandemikk Level 3
5/19/10
Level 3
5/19/10
Yes, this is simply childish "frustration". Forgive me for trying to talk some sense to this forum.
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5/19/10
Top Contributor
5/19/10
Best answer - Pandemikk (Asker)
Pandemikk: A quick pass through your site sees all kinds of small items that could be a problem, especially when taken in aggregate. One of the problems with the AdSenseBot is it makes half-a$$ decisions before all the results are in. What I mean by that: it's not just one visit that grabs everything, chews everything up, checks everything out and gives you THE final answer (in 48 hours or less). The Bot is a series of modules, each designed to pick up certain items and run checks on them. If 50% of the checks look good, it sends off an acceptance email so you can get on with placing your ads. However, in that final 50%, the Bot often runs into questions it can't answer or things it doesn't like and it hangs up. In that "hang up," it will send out one or another of only a few generic emails, each designed to be a catch-all that doesn't truly answer any of your/our valid questions. A hard read of the "invalid clicks" email will show you a couple other places where the Bot hints there may be a problem. You don't have a privacy policy problem but a forum set-up, user-generated content, potential copyright issues and "not family-friendly" languaging can quickly add up to give you the toss. What's a pain is Google will never directly say so and all we can do is guess. But that's my best guess, especially after seeing so many recent instances where Google's version of "NetNanny" has proven extremely prudish. The "user-generated content/copyright issues" problem has also gotten really big over the last few years. Again, this is just my best guess, it is not meant to be an excuse for Google's hiding behind their obtuse and vague legalese. After looking at so many sites during my five years of participating in these "help" forums, I can say that very few forum sites see any kind of reasonable return from AdSense. And those of us who do see some kind of reasonable return have been watching that return go south in a long, slow slide for the last several years now. In the summer of 2007 I was seeing twice the money on one-quarter the traffic...
You want to make a few bucks of regular income every month: sell subscriptions for your site to your regulars for a couple bucks each. Make it worth it and you'll do fine. I make more money from my own direct ad sales than AdSense will ever pay, but I found a sweet spot between advertisers and buyers and I generate a lot of traffic. You might try that, too. I also use a couple other common ad-servers and together, they make 35-40% of my ad-server income (meaning Google isn't everything there is out there). Good luck!
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Report abuse Pandemikk Level 3
5/19/10
Level 3
5/19/10
I don't understand how forums would pose a user-generated problem. Forums are goldmines for user-generated content, especially forums based on a specific niche like mine is. Copyright issues makes zero sense, either. The only music on my site is posted by the artist themselves. An artist can't post his music on your site and then sue you for having it.
I get the main message you are tying to convey, though. It seems Google just does not care about its users. What a shame.
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5/19/10
Top Contributor
5/19/10
Users don't pay the bills, advertisers do. You are trying to trade ad space for a few bucks. To get those few bucks, you have to conform to the payer's standards. Those standards are much tighter these days than a few years ago because so many people have scammed them. The problem with user-generated content is sometimes you get a loose cannon for a user and he craps all over your site, again and again and again. All it takes is for one person to see garbage and click on the "Ads by Google" logo and report the infraction. And yes, your niche may generate a lot of traffic and a lot of interaction with that traffic. How many of your users have large amounts of disposable cash bubbling out of their pockets? That's a variable in the equation that has to be taken into account. Another variable comes in the form of the ads themselves. For instance, I have about 800 instances of AdSense for Maps running on one of my sites. It looks great: you see a map with a Google search bar. You put in what you want and Google displays those businesses on the map, with phone numbers, addresses and everything. Good deal? About five million visitors later I might have made $5 on it. No one inside Google's black hole can answer a question about it. Was it worth the time and effort it took to make the thing work (because Google's documentation was worse than "sucks")?
An easier solution for you (because it loads itself and displays dynamically as your pages load) is Infolinks. It doesn't pay as well as AdSense but I'm surprised by how well it does pay. It's also much easier to deal with and isn't as intrusive on your visitors (and in your niche, with a forum site, you'll have lots of regulars and regulars are the death of AdSense income). Check it out: http://www.infolinks.com
Good luck!
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Report abuse Pandemikk Level 3
5/19/10
Level 3
5/19/10
Yeah. I do believe it was a rival competitor who disabled my account by simply spam clicking my ads. I'll check out your site.
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No Report abuse wholovesmystuff Level 2
6/10/10
Level 2
6/10/10
I worked soo hard to make a nice site so it would attract people to it and they would see the Google ads. Well after months of getting clicks and to reach the $100 mark that it takes before you get a check I got screwed by Google. When it was time for them to pay me they just said there were invalid clicks so I'm not getting any money from them. I followed the rules and after having the ads on my site for 8 months and only going to get a $100. It really wasn't worth the space on my site. I just hope nobody else waste their time and effort just to get screwed in the end. My site is wholovesmystuff.com
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Report abuse zihara Top Contributor
6/10/10
Top Contributor
6/10/10
Wholovesmystuff? Obviously you do. No one else did. Didja ever think maybe you were a bit too heavy on the "click on my own ads" button?
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Report abuse HardLesson Level 1
6/11/10
Level 1
6/11/10
Re: Why such poor support for disabled accounts?
Actually Google DOESN'T have any support at all !!! Check other forums, e.g. "Adwords", "Google Checkout", etc. - Same problems everywhere!!!
If you are asking yourself "What for this forum was created by Google if there is no support? - To let your steam (anger) out here, not to spead somewhere else"
They created a banch of Fake Contributors, under different names to let you feel that is a real forum with real people with different opinions. It's not - they are "Fake Contributors", working from the same room, in the same building.
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Report abuse dexteronline Level 13
6/11/10
Level 13
6/11/10
Fake Contributors
I like that, I too been asking myself for the longest time "Am I for real or am I a joke, or do I really occupy space or am I creation of a lunatic's imagination" But then I am taking pills for the last 12 years that makes me see things into the future as it was in present terms at t=0
Must been the pills, that is why the only thing I can explain to my web visitors is Time Value of Money or how to judge future financial cash inflows in present day terms at t=0
My NPV for adsense investment is positive, although the discounted payback period was initially 5 months which has come down to one month. The profitability index is above 1 so it makes sense to stay with adsense at the internal rate of return that is higher than my cost of capital, however I still need to learn how to find the weighted average cost of capital so I am learning as I go
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6/11/10
Level 3
6/11/10
AdSense publisher support is abysmal. don't give me that tired zihara argument. I have tested many other avertising solutions and everyone of them have been able to respond to my email via non-generic message.
I don't know why Google doesn't invest into better support Staff. Greed? Perhaps. Such a shame.
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Report abuse Publisher1 Top Contributor
6/11/10
Top Contributor
6/11/10
Pandemikk, once again, I agree with you Google sets up a seeming brick wall, especially to disabled publishers. I wish there could be a better answer but now that i've acquired additional gray hair and am on to my third (of "nine") lives in the Adsense disabled/survival space I can see why Google needs to be cold-hearted in communicating once you receive the "disabling" email.
Franky, there are some strange people out there who even though they are 100 per cent wrong simply won't take 'no' for an answer. I think Google rightfully needs to put up very high walls to keep these people away. My recent click bombing survival experience may have been extreme but I doubt it is the only time crazy stuff happens and the last thing Google staff need is to provide any lievel of support to these nut-cases.
Then what about real, sincere and honorable publishers who are disabled perhaps through their unpreparadness or sloppiness (but not because they are inherently evil or stupid). You appear to fit into this category. You can read earlier threads about how I got my second chance and now I've learned how to get my third chance -- by proactively monitoring and tracking my AdSense activities and wasting absolutely no time in documenting and fighting anyone who tries a click bomb attack.
The latter experience also taught me there is a real human presence behind Google's walls. When I needed it (and in this case I really did!), I received substantial support both from the forum community and Google staff. But in the end I needed to take leadership and responsibility for solving the problem. There is a road back in, if you tread carefully and thoughtfully.
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Report abuse Ayla_Zed Level 12
6/15/10
Level 12
6/15/10
Why is there poor support for disabled accounts?
That made me laugh, I'm sad to report.
A disabled account means you are no longer an AdSense Publisher,
so why would you be given any support at all?
So often we hear people who are out of the program saying
"but I didn't click my own ads, it must have been someone else!".
As if Google is punishing them personally. This is not personal.
this is business. If ads on your site were being clicked in a way
that was fraudulent, you should have stopped those clicks from
affecting advertisers, AdSense, and your account. There is more
than enough information about how to do that posted here at this forum,
and plenty of tools available to do it. Untill your site is bringing in
a large amount of cash for Googles, bad clicks are a real concern
and you need to stay on top of it. Sure, it's work. That's what AdSense
is, work. For Grown-Ups.
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Report abuse artofthemystic Level 1
2/12/11
Level 1
2/12/11
After reading this, and several related forum posts, I have come to the conclusion that Adsense is a giant Ponzi scheme. Google is god, and thou shall have no gods before me - meaning that if your site gets an increase in traffic, which results in an increase in ad-clicks, which then triggers google to disable your account, it is because the only way they would accept your traffic increase (and resulting ad-click increases) as legitimate would be if it came about because you yourself had purchased google ads, and the traffic increase is attributable to those ads. If your traffic increase came because you had tweeted, liked on facebook, stumbled, +share or some other way, than google considers these as fraud (the social network clause in their TOS). You either use google ads, or smoke signals (word of mouth). There is nothing on the internet that can promote your site, other than google, that is "alowed".
Why do you think they give you $ 100.-- in "free" ads to get you started? It's like a pusher giving you the first hit for free. Once you get hooked, you need the fix to increase traffic in order to - hopefully - generate enough revenue from Adsense to pay for your google ads. It is a billion dollar scam, and the set-up is not unlike a Ponzi scheme.
There are ways to use the web space and effort wasted on Adsense in a much more constructive and ultimately more profitable way. Become an associate of a site or service that pays comission. You get zilch for clicks, but you get as much as 15% comission or better for any sales that are generated from your link on that session.
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No Report abuse Ayla_Zed Level 12
2/24/11
Level 12
2/24/11
Using Google Ads to drive traffic to your site is not a good idea, unless you have something to sell on your site, and you drive the traffic to those pages, and not to pages with AdSense on them.
If you go to other sites and spam away, posting posts that no one wants there, or promoting your site in many unethical ways, you will lose your AdSense account as that is a violation of Program Policy.
Our site gets paid by AdSense every month. We worked on our site and built a great site that is very high ion the search results on all the major search engines, so we get lots of organic traffic, natural traffic and so we make money with AdSense.
There is no "Ponzi Scheme" you have misunderstood in several ways.
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